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The other morning at breakfast my friend Richard the intellectual laid down his newspaper and said, ‘I thought you told me you and Jack Betts were friends?’
 
I looked up.  ‘We are.’
 
‘Have you read his article in the newspaper this morning?’
 
I looked at the headline.  ‘Well, Jack supports the Ground Zero mosque.’
 
‘He says the ad you helped Renee Ellmers make isn’t true – that the mosques in Cordova and Jerusalem and Constantinople weren’t victory mosques.’
 
“Okay.  What’s Jack’s case?”
 
‘He says the mosque in Jerusalem was built 50 years after the Moslems conquered it, the one in Cordova was build 73 years after they conquered it, and the one in Constantinople was built 150 years after they conquered it.’
 
Jack had gotten that piece of wisdom from Michael Bieseker, the News and Observer’s resident historian. I said:  ‘We built the World War II Memorial in Washington 59 years after the war ended; we built the Lincoln Memorial 57 years after Lincoln died; and we built the Yorktown Victory Monument 110 years after the battle.’
 
‘Jack also quotes a Duke Professor who calls victory mosques a sheer flight of fantasy.’
 
 ‘Well, those three mosques weren’t average everyday mosques – they weren’t like the local Baptist church down on the corner. They were among the biggest churches in the world. The Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem was built on the rock where Muslims say Mohammed ascended into heaven but it was also built to show the Byzantine Empire a monument to the power and glory of Islam.’
 
‘Anderson Cooper said Catholics have done the same thing – that they built the Vatican as a victory church after they conquered Rome.’
 
‘Well, there’s one problem with that – no Catholic army ever conquered Rome or the Roman Empire.’
 
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persondem
# persondem
Thursday, September 30, 2010 5:48 PM
You seem to be purposefully being obtuse and comparing apples and oranges. All the monuments you mentioned were built in the US, NOT in Germany or Japan, NOT at the site of any victory, so they don't apply to this discussion.

Also, the catholics might not have had an army, but catholocism did defeat the pagan religion of Rome, usurp it's festivals (Saturnalia), and plant it's flag, the vatican, at the heart of the Roman empire. Catholic cathedrals were also built on Aztec temples in Mexico and on pagan religious sites across the americas.

And the proposed community center in NYC is just that. It will have a prayer room, but religious services are not it's main purpose.

Stoking fear and racial divides is an old political trick. And it is that kind of nonsense that has led to the decline of the quality of political discourse in this country, and an increase in the cynicism of the average citizen.
Carbine
# Carbine
Thursday, September 30, 2010 11:32 PM
I have been amused at the public evolution of the mosque into a "community center, with a prayer room" as this project has toddled along. I wonder, if I were a resident of that community and wished to use the "prayer room" to commune with Jesus, or to offer Hebrew prayers, or do whatever it is that Hindus or Bhuddists do that equates to prayer, would the Imam in charge object?

dap916
# dap916
Saturday, October 02, 2010 3:21 PM
I am humored by the new expression for the mosque being proposed to be built blocks from Ground Zero in NYC. That term by the left and by those that are going out of their way to defend it's legitimacy is "community center".

It reminds me of how the Obama administration changed Health Care Reform to Health "Insurance" Reform.

Words to soften the truth...or change the truth depending how ya wanna look at it.

My mom used to have an expression that I'm sure many here have heard before...."A rose by any other name is still a rose". That says it all about whatever people want to call the MOSQUE next to Ground Zero. Yep...they have the right to build it there. The whole issue is whether it is right to build it there.

Only a small minority believes it is right to build it there....but, the lib-led media and others are making it otherwise.

Carter Wrenn
# Carter Wrenn
Monday, October 04, 2010 12:08 AM
Dear persondem, re: the monuments 'not being in Germany or Japan and not being at the site of any victory' -- could we agree we won the battle of Yorktown? Best, Carter
persondem
# persondem
Monday, October 04, 2010 11:46 AM
Mr. Wrenn,
You still miss the point. A monument built at Yorktown is not built in England; we are not tweaking the noses of the English through the construction of that monument. Imagine such a monument built in Trafalgar Square. It's not analogous.

For the rest of you, a dose of reality ... Link below the quote ...

"Much of the rest of the building would be occupied by a restaurant, culinary school, artist studios, exhibition space and an auditorium for cultural events.

El-Gamal said the idea was to build a facility that will attract neighborhood residents looking for a place to work out, as well as suburban Muslim couples spending ``date night'' in the city.

The building's prayer space for Muslims — the part of the center that has caused some critics to derisively brand the center the ``ground zero mega mosque'' — would be located on two levels in the basement. The 12th floor would hold a 9/11 memorial and sanctuary open to people of all faiths."
http://www.indianagazette.com/articles/2010/10/04/news/doc4ca76f5ee9e3a251259433.txt

I don't necessarily like the idea of the islamic center being built there, but the extreme bs put out by xenophobic right wing nutjobs is Wrong and very unamerican.
dap916
# dap916
Monday, October 04, 2010 8:24 PM
Persondem, the majority of Americans are against putting this mosque there. They aren't all "xenophobic right wing nutjobs". That kind of name calling and the other rhetoric you have put here about this mosque only having a small portion being prayer space would go great on BlueNC where you also do your blogging. James and Sharrison would love ya if you said there what you've said here. This isn't really a radical far left liberal/progressive site like BlueNC so what you've said is most certainly seen as ridiculous here..

Not many people deny that the muslims have the right to build the mosque there. Most people believe it isn't right to build it there. Most folks can see that people like you with your particular political philosophy are trying to defend the mosque or saying they don't like it being built there ..."but, here's reasons it's okay to build it there". Silly, really. I'd bet the primary reason you are even posting here about this or anywhere else you discuss it is because you know that the VAST majority of conservative republicans are against the mosque being located there. You're in a minority on this one....but, you're probably also a Health Care Reform bill advocate and all about Cap & Trade and think Al Gore and Barack Obama were the best choices ever for the Nobel Peace Prize.
Carbine
# Carbine
Tuesday, October 05, 2010 4:56 PM
And how is calling your fellow Americans, who's only offense in this matter may be that they either received different information than you (through NPR, CNN, and the networks--NOT just FOX) or see things differently than you a bunch of "xenophobic right wing nutjobs" any better than being one yourself?

The left has fallen all over itself to find racists in the Tea Party movement and bigots in the reaction against the mosque. It appears that McCarthyism knows no political ideology.

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